diff --git a/hermes_cli/update_custody.py b/hermes_cli/update_custody.py
index 1160f2f83c..41f8cf435d 100644
--- a/hermes_cli/update_custody.py
+++ b/hermes_cli/update_custody.py
@@ -77,8 +77,10 @@ def git_argv(git_cmd: Sequence[str], args: Sequence[str]) -> list[str]:
 
 
 def _held() -> dict | None:
-    from hermes_cli import update_lock
-
+    try:
+        from hermes_cli import update_lock
+    except Exception:  # noqa: BLE001 - a torn tree's launch repair: no updater runs from it
+        return None
     return update_lock._HELD
 
 
@@ -196,20 +198,43 @@ def run_git(git_cmd: Sequence[str], args: Sequence[str], **kwargs) -> subprocess
 
 # A stdlib launcher for children whose Popen the updater never sees (``run_contained``): it
 # joins the job named by an inherited handle, drops that handle (only the owner's handle may
-# keep the job open) and runs the real command with the same stdio.
+# keep the job open) and runs the real command with the same stdio. A refused join never fails
+# the build: the command runs outside the job (the pre-custody behavior) and says so on stderr.
+_CUSTODY_UNAVAILABLE = "hermes: update custody unavailable"
 _JOIN_JOB = (
     "import ctypes, subprocess, sys\n"
     "k = ctypes.WinDLL('kernel32', use_last_error=True)\n"
     "k.AssignProcessToJobObject.argtypes = [ctypes.c_void_p, ctypes.c_void_p]\n"
     "k.GetCurrentProcess.restype = ctypes.c_void_p\n"
+    "k.CloseHandle.argtypes = [ctypes.c_void_p]\n"
     "h = ctypes.c_void_p(int(sys.argv[1]))\n"
     "if not k.AssignProcessToJobObject(h, k.GetCurrentProcess()):\n"
-    "    sys.exit('could not join the update job: %d' % ctypes.get_last_error())\n"
+    f"    sys.stderr.write('{_CUSTODY_UNAVAILABLE} (could not join the update job: %d); '\n"
+    "                     'this child runs outside it\\n' % ctypes.get_last_error())\n"
+    "    sys.stderr.flush()\n"
     "k.CloseHandle(h)\n"
     "sys.exit(subprocess.call(sys.argv[2:], stdin=subprocess.DEVNULL))\n"
 )
 
 
+def _join_launcher_python() -> str:
+    """The interpreter for the job-joining launcher: the real one, never a venv redirector.
+
+    A venv's ``Scripts\\python.exe`` is a redirector: it starts the base interpreter as its own
+    child, inside a job of its own. That child cannot join the update's job once the job holds a
+    process from another job hierarchy (the updater's git children): ``AssignProcessToJobObject``
+    fails with ERROR_ACCESS_DENIED (5). And the redirector, never joined, keeps its inherited copy
+    of the job handle open, so the job would not close when the owner dies. The launcher is
+    stdlib-only (``-I -S``), so the base interpreter runs it as is.
+    """
+    import os
+
+    base = getattr(sys, "_base_executable", None)
+    if base and os.path.isfile(base):
+        return base
+    return sys.executable
+
+
 @contextlib.contextmanager
 def contained_command(argv: Sequence[str], *, inherit_lock: bool = True):
     """``(argv, kwargs)`` for a checkout writer started by a runner that hides its Popen (the Node
@@ -227,7 +252,7 @@ def contained_command(argv: Sequence[str], *, inherit_lock: bool = True):
     try:
         info = subprocess.STARTUPINFO()
         info.lpAttributeList = {"handle_list": [handle]}
-        yield [sys.executable, "-I", "-S", "-c", _JOIN_JOB, str(handle), *argv], {"startupinfo": info}
+        yield [_join_launcher_python(), "-I", "-S", "-c", _JOIN_JOB, str(handle), *argv], {"startupinfo": info}
     finally:
         import ctypes
 
diff --git a/tests/hermes_cli/test_update_lock_windows_live.py b/tests/hermes_cli/test_update_lock_windows_live.py
index bce79602d1..36c2a4e324 100644
--- a/tests/hermes_cli/test_update_lock_windows_live.py
+++ b/tests/hermes_cli/test_update_lock_windows_live.py
@@ -89,8 +89,12 @@ from pathlib import Path
 sys.path.insert(0, sys.argv[1])
 from hermes_cli.update_lock import UpdateLock
 from hermes_cli.source_build import run_source_script
+from hermes_cli.update_custody import run_git
 root = Path(sys.argv[2])
 assert UpdateLock(path=Path(sys.argv[3]), install_root=root).acquire()
+# A git child first, as in every install/update: the job then already holds a process when the
+# build's launcher joins it (a venv redirector's child was refused here: ERROR_ACCESS_DENIED).
+run_git(["git"], ["--version"], capture_output=True, check=True)
 env = {**os.environ, "PATH": sys.argv[4] + os.pathsep + os.environ["PATH"]}
 run_source_script(root, "build.mjs", env=env, label="probe build")
 """
@@ -172,3 +176,15 @@ def test_killed_owner_takes_its_node_build_down(tmp_path):
     (bin_dir / "node.bat").write_text(f'@"{sys.executable}" "{install / "build.py"}"\r\n', encoding="utf-8")
     _tree_dies_with_its_owner(tmp_path, install,
                               [_BUILD_OWNER, str(REPO_ROOT), str(install), str(tmp_path / "m"), str(bin_dir)])
+
+
+def test_a_refused_job_join_still_runs_the_child(tmp_path):
+    """Custody degrades, never fails: a launcher whose join is refused runs its command anyway."""
+    from hermes_cli.update_custody import _CUSTODY_UNAVAILABLE, _JOIN_JOB
+
+    child = "import sys; print('built'); sys.exit(3)"
+    out = subprocess.run([sys.executable, "-I", "-S", "-c", _JOIN_JOB, "0", sys.executable, "-c", child],
+                         capture_output=True, text=True, encoding="utf-8", errors="replace", timeout=60)
+    assert out.returncode == 3, out
+    assert out.stdout.strip() == "built"
+    assert _CUSTODY_UNAVAILABLE in out.stderr
diff --git a/tests/hermes_cli/test_update_target_identity.py b/tests/hermes_cli/test_update_target_identity.py
index 2533f6658a..318b178f68 100644
--- a/tests/hermes_cli/test_update_target_identity.py
+++ b/tests/hermes_cli/test_update_target_identity.py
@@ -324,7 +324,11 @@ def test_stable_zip_consumes_the_same_commit_through_the_real_swap(update_tree,
             local += '?' + parsed.query
         return real_open(local, *args, **kwargs)
 
-    def guarded_run(command, *args, **kwargs):
+    from hermes_cli import update_custody
+
+    real_custody_run, seam = update_custody.run, threading.local()
+
+    def guard(command, args, kwargs, call):
         nonlocal fetched, failed
         command = list(map(str, command))
         assert Path(command[0]).name.lower() in {'git', 'git.exe'}, command
@@ -337,11 +341,28 @@ def test_stable_zip_consumes_the_same_commit_through_the_real_swap(update_tree,
         if fetched and not failed and '--abbrev-ref' in command and kwargs.get('check'):
             failed = True
             raise subprocess.CalledProcessError(128, command, '', 'fixture: Git file I/O failed')
-        result = real_run(command, *args, **kwargs)
+        result = call(command, *args, **kwargs)
         if 'fetch' in command:
             fetched = True
         return result
 
+    def guarded_run(command, *args, **kwargs):
+        if getattr(seam, 'custody', False):  # already guarded at the custody seam below
+            return real_run(command, *args, **kwargs)
+        return guard(command, args, kwargs, real_run)
+
+    def custody_call(command, *args, **kwargs):
+        seam.custody = True
+        try:
+            return real_custody_run(command, *args, **kwargs)
+        finally:
+            seam.custody = False
+
+    def guarded_custody_run(command, *args, **kwargs):
+        # The updater's git goes through update_custody.run: on Windows inside an update that is a
+        # suspended Popen bound to the update's job, not subprocess.run, so faults go in here too.
+        return guard(command, args, kwargs, custody_call)
+
     if transport in {'gitless', 'no-git'}:
         (t.clone / '.git').rename(tmp_path / 'git-state')
     if transport == 'dirty':
@@ -349,6 +370,7 @@ def test_stable_zip_consumes_the_same_commit_through_the_real_swap(update_tree,
     before = (t.clone / 'content.txt').read_bytes()
     monkeypatch.setattr(urllib.request, 'urlopen', local_open)
     monkeypatch.setattr(subprocess, 'run', guarded_run)
+    monkeypatch.setattr(update_custody, 'run', guarded_custody_run)
     try:
         if transport == 'dirty':
             with pytest.raises(SystemExit) as error: